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Douglas Renwick's avatar

Good post.

I'm in a minority of leftists that support the UBI. I get discredited by my regrowthers and my MMT comrades for it. There is huge support for it in feminist economics however, which I think make a pretty strong case.

My article "what is work?" argued in favour of it. But I also argued in favour of the JG and the UBS. If it is true that 80% of energy use under capitalism is pure waste (likely an accurate estimate!), then I propose that we can support all three and tax rich people (for pro democracy and inflationary reasons ofc!) Of course, the details all matter.

The issue with the UBI is that it has been proposed as a neoliberal solution, or they see it in a lens where many other structural changes also occur at the same time. So they argue it boosts consumption or inflation, or reinforces neoliberalism. Even Bill Mitchell does! I hope that my article argues why this may not be true.

Very few see the immeasurable humanism in a bit of unconditionality. Our society is not ready for pure unconditionality of course, and so some conditions need to be built on top of that, (socially and ecologically useful work).

GhostOnTheHalfShell's avatar

"The Mars King is a lovely “beautiful mind” engineer bro"

100% in this area, we are in complete accord. He does the same thing with Donald Trump. I have more than a few other comments in mind here, but I'm not gonna get into it.

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"Mosler was saying regardless of whether governments are stupid or not, imports are still your real benefit and exports your real cost. "

I can't agree with the statement.

Moler himself characterized importation as a form of tribute (you go on to correctly label exportations a form of colonialism). These are the terms used for a vassal state. And what exactly is the "cost"?

Money and resources spent in the economy, putting money in people's pockets, employing people, causing economic activity. You're calling that a cost. A job guarantee guy calling jobs a cost.

You would rather have people pound sand or lay bricks to employ people which is a real economic cost by the way also because you have to pay for things and use resources, including labor, but somehow magically exportations are treated in a completely different manner.

How can you consider neutral the elimination of local work for imports, which only served the profit the wealthy, but are you that the government should understand provide a job to do some other task for marginal income?

Very clearly, the global economy sustains a necrotic process where the global periphery (aka global south) is forced to dismember their own economic autonomy, especially in food security, in order to shape themselves into a useful cog for the financial and industrial core.

-- UBI considered immoral

If UBI is immoral, then interest income of any kind is immoral because they are unearned income. All forms of interest income are unearned. (this is a thesis I embrace) Even dividend income can come under scrutiny. Profit is theft of somebody's labor. Inflation and interest is theft of somebody's labor.

A currency sovereign can issue the means of exchange with no cost and no interest charge. What is the difference between the state handing a stipend to a little old lady or to a 20 year-old, so they spend the money into the economy, causing economic activity?

The value of the means of exchange is to enable commerce. Simply declare that pensioner and college student as being employed by the government to spend money and thus cause commerce doing so.

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