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GhostOnTheHalfShell's avatar

I hold a very different idea about the construct we call money. Or put another way, I don't think considering money as a form of debt to be terribly useful in the way it is framed.

If you are at all familiar with Michael Hudson's word, you would understand historically it was a logistical tool for temples and their internal production. In this sense money started out strictly as a unit of account. Currency itself spent much more time as an abstraction as credit, from whence the concept of debt emerges.

Society relies on it is built on a foundation of reciprocity, and here I mean, reciprocity in the sense that what is done for others is returned as other doing for oneself.

Money embodies this principle in the sense that one man spending is another man's income. But in order for this to work, one man's sales obligates him to purchase measured in score points.

But society itself (government) creates the means of exchange to participate in this circuit. Its only obligation is to define a system where every member of society is obligated to do their part in the economic circuit: to purchase in amounts equal to what the sold.

The state's only obligation to is to itself (ie the obligation to *ourselves*).

This is the core element of Gesell's unique views of money; to level money with all other goods or services in the imperative to trade them to others. (he has equivalent ideas about land; although patience is needed because in today's terms some of his definitions require nuance which he displays later in his writing on that topic)

Money as it is, can be hoarded (saved) in ways not comparable to the imperatives of perishable goods (subject to decay) or goods (costs to store and often obsolescence). This means those who have a super abundance of money (or the privilege of creating it) do multiple things:

1) they starve another of income

2) they force them into loss (unsold food spoiling, storage costs, irrelevance) ie they CREATE scarcity, the essence of supply side inflation.

3) extort tribute from them, income without effort, the essence of interest and profit.

Interest, inflation, scarcity and profit are all aspects of the same thing, structural power imbalance. If you have inflation *you have UBI for those that need it not*

When money *cannot* be made scarce, has to circulate, expires after a short period and is constantly replenished, no one can be extorted. There will always be people with the resources to buy what they need, and for sellers, customers and a money stream they can use to finance products for others. Money is a resource, just ask seed or fertile land or tools, but it is toxic in its privileged construction

In Gesell's money world, where money faces expiration, those that sell *must* exchange a commodity (money) for something else they need or they must offer it for others' use.

Gesell is unique in his perspective of money's relation to real world products. He aligns it with reality of everything else.

In this world, *profit* doesn't drive the economy, because prices are *stable*, lending occurs to defray *loss* instead of gain. This is by far a *much more stable dynamic*, it is not structurally limitless amplification.

A landlord or a factory owner gets a good deal by lending their property to others on the promise of its maintenance or replacement due to wear or eventual obsolescence. Profit is *unnecessary* for commerce or invention.

In the particular case of UBI, since it is supposed to be universal, no one can be "cheated" of their work; Bob and Joe could have all the money in the world, but it's irrelevant if the farmer and the blacksmith offer nothing to trade.

They both starve to death if neither work.

Pat Cusack's avatar

@STEVEHUMMEL is right except for one crucial point: he has confused the accounting adjective “Debit” with the legal noun “Debt”.

Your $100,000 naked “promise to pay” a bank $100,000 does not incur a “$100,000 debt (n.)”, ONLY a “$100,000 debit (adj.) balance”, representing the financial value (to the bank) of your promise - which the bank could SELL for $100,000 if it wanted to. And you do not REPAY a promise you have made; you simply KEEP it.

PROOF: Having your name tied to a “$100 debit (adj.) entry” in the bank’s cash a/c, for example, simply identifies you as the source of the “$100 Note” you just deposited. It does not mean you are in debt (n.) to the bank for $100. Because of your $100 cash deposit, your a/c has a $100 credit (adj.) item added to its credit (adj.) balance; the bank now OWES you that $100 in cash, making you the bank’s creditor and the bank your debtor.

If we agree that a $100 Note is a government Promissory Note [PN], the only difference when you deposit your own $100,000 PN is that your PN can’t be recorded against your name in the bank's cash a/c. It must be debited (v.) to another a/c, by putting “$100,000 Dr” against your name, and you’re STILL not in debt (n.) to the bank. But you must keep your promise, the same as the bank must keep its “$100,000 promise” to you, i.e., represented by the $100,000 credit (adj.) balance they put in your a/c this time. You are STILL the bank’s creditor, having deposited an even more valuable PN, and the record of its matching “promise to you” is the $100,000 credit (adj.) balance” in your account.

Your $100,000 “naked promise” does not incur a “$100,000 debt (n.)”, ONLY a “$100,000 debit (adj.) balance”. And you do not “repay” that promise, you simply keep it, as promised.

The bank has GIVEN you NOTHING you were not ENTITLED TO as the depositor of a $100,000 PN, and hence, as a creditor.

You know it makes sense.

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